AI Enhancements Coming to the DMV

Wade Erickson (00:00):

Welcome to another episode of Tech Leaders Unplugged. We're going to get unplugged today with Lane Campbell, founder and principle of GovSoft, and we're going to talk a little bit about AI needed in a very interesting government agency, the DMV. I'm sure we've all sat through many along lines there and, tried to get appointments and, hopefully Lane can talk about how AI's going to help shorten those lines and get us moving through the system a lot faster. So, thanks Lane for joining us today here on Tech Leaders Unplugged. If you could just, you know, introduce yourself a little bit and goof and then we'll jump into the topic.

Lane Campbell (00:55):

Wade, it's great to be on today. Nice to get a chance to speak to your audience. I've been in, in, in the business of building and selling small tech companies for my most of my career. Been in mostly emerging technologies, got started in different types of infrastructure and interconnected networks when VoIP was new. So we ended up inventing a way to do a para virtualized telephony timing pass through with with our team. And we ended up building out a, a little VoIP company in Chicago back in the day. My adventures took me on to Silicon Valley and, and later New York. I've been fortunate enough to work with some amazing brands along that journey was a person who, who led a technical team that went out to, to Motorola's headquarters on behalf of Apple. Working on behalf of some of the largest law firms you, you've probably all heard of before, to capture data, do forensic captures during that dispute. And then different types of cybersecurity and infrastructure interconnected type of environments For most of my career, been a member of the FBI civilian program on cybersecurity InfraGuard for probably about 10 years now, and been fortunate enough to need a number of, of great folks along the way. Ended up founding GovSoft to back during COVID ended up moving into this because my family has a long, rich history in providing solutions for different levels of state and local government. Began with my grandmother who worked for Ronald Reagan, actually in California back when he was governor, and that was over 50 years ago. My father's still providing services in California and New York today. And, and now I've started a company focused on DMV technology initially here, and we've, I've been trying to bring some innovation into a, a part of the government that a lot of people really don't enjoy talking with.

Wade Erickson (02:58):

Great. Great. Well, thanks for the background on yourself and GovSoft. So, let's talk a little bit about what you guys are doing with the DMV. And, and maybe some of the you know pain points that the, you know, taxpayers and the users of their services have. And yeah, where, where we might see some new tech help with those processes.

Lane Campbell (03:27):

Well, sure. You know, what I like to think of, of the DMV as, as a big major critical piece of national security infrastructure it, it is a place where you can get the documents you need to get on an airplane, right? Tell tells people who you are. So, you know, the, these institutions have been doing this for a long time and they're very good at what they do overall. But sometimes it's not the most efficient process. And the nice thing about some of today's modern technologies is they can help fight some of the bad actors that are out there in terms of trying to obtain critical documents for travel that you know, we want to try to prevent. Additionally, you know, the average person who's been there before had to interface with them is probably going to have some level of efficiency added with new types of technology that'll allow for a, a little bit of an easier experience. We see more and more states moving to online renewals of driver's licenses, license plates with that, you know, there's, there's new technology infrastructure that the state has to place and put, put, put in place has to maintain. They have a lot of trouble attracting some, some talent to those types of roles. They, they end up having outsource. I've seen states that have adopted technologies and then foreign companies have come in and acquired it. So, you know, it's, it's real important, I think for states to really un really understand what, what they're putting in, where they're putting it in. And, and really political leaders really want the best from, from our experience for, for their communities. And they're, they're trying to, to make the right decisions to try to help people deal with, with interfacing through the DMV our experiences is that they, you know, they've had the same experiences we've had <laugh> they, they, they don't want it to take long. They don't want to waiting in line 'cause they didn't want to do that back when they, they weren't in office. And even now that they're in office, they may still be subject to the same kinds of weights and times. So we we're trying to bring predictive technologies like artificial intelligence into real important roles. As part of that you think of wait, when was the last time you enjoyed waiting in line at the DMV?

Wade Erickson (05:46):

Yeah, just, just was there recently with moving from California to Texas literally a couple weeks ago. And it took me 90 days to get an appointment. I couldn't even just walk in. So because of COVID, a lot of these CMVs have kept the appointment model. And surprisingly it made it efficient because I don't think I waited more than 10 or 15 minutes. And I remember back in the days of the, you know, hundreds of people waiting in there for their turn and the lines going out the door in California pre COVID. So yeah, I, I think they, they're holding onto that to keep the population down a little bit. But that still isn't waiting 90 days for that appointment is still shows the backlog of, of, of the efficiencies and challenges.

Lane Campbell (06:36):

Yeah, I think we, we've all seen how, how much better things can be with a little technology, even just scheduling solutions, right? Well, one of the, the tools we've been putting out into pilot soon is, is a AI for answering phone calls at these locations right there. There's so much that goes into what you need when you move between states. What, what documents do you have to bring? And are you a citizen? Are you a permanent resident? Are, you know, there's a lot of questions going to come through that process. Keeping that kind of information in, in someone's head who's new hire hasn't been there that long, you know, they, they tend to be the one who gets stuck answering the phone. 'cause The knowledgeable people are getting pulled off to handle. So that's, that's a nice thing about an ai, right? It can, it can really learn a lot about a lot. And it, it can be very, very helpful and, and more than one language. You're no longer just expecting people to answer in English. You maybe you need Spanish or Italian or French, you know, the AI can really handle all that.

Wade Erickson (07:36):

Yeah, that's interesting perspective because it is one of the few places where every person in society, regardless of being a citizen, 'cause a lot of these states are, you know, they offer driver's license, anybody that really will walk in. It's, but like you said, the having the extra symbols on your driver's license to get on a plane, you do have to share a lot of passports and birth certificates and all that kind of stuff to get these additional features into the driver's license. It is a somewhat complex process. And those guy, they, they're machines in there, man, the minute you pull up it's bang, bang, bang, bang asking you those documents and if you don't have 'em right, you got to go back home. You know? Simple things like a, a title versus a registration, that was what caught me up. I brought in my titles, you know, 'cause I had to change my cars over before I could get my driver's license brought in my titles, but that wasn't good enough. They wanted the registrations and I was, Oh, crazy, crazy. And it would've been an easy slip for somebody thinking the titles were fine if they were new, just to your point.

Lane Campbell (08:43):

And that's, that's part of it. Right. When you made that appointment online did it ask you what you were going to be coming in for in that process?

Wade Erickson (08:54):

Basically just at a driver's license and then it sent me to a link with a lot of documentation. And, you know, that that simply, that missing, missing that little point that a title wasn't good enough to show. I moved the cars over in the last, you know, 30 or 40 days. I had to get my car drive home quick. They had to give me an extended meet. It was a, it was a little chaotic. And just because something as simple as a title isn't good enough as, as a registration you know, almost lost me that 90 day appointment. So it was a, it was a hectic day.

Lane Campbell (09:30):

That's the kind of thing we want to try to solve. 'cause There, there's a couple of things, right? When, when you're thinking of your local government, you're thinking of the local leaders. You know, anytime you, you have problems dealing with institutions like this and you have problems like that you, you might start to judge the, the local leadership, right? And so, having innovation and accelerating the ability for that local agency to do its job a little better and inform you, for example, take you through a process when you're making that appointment using AI to help make sure that you understand what documents you need to bring, that, that cuts back on you having the driver around your frustration. It, it further makes you feel like your community has the right kind of leadership there. And that's really what we, we try to help with, with these agencies is, you know, they, they're, they're trying their best. They have limited resources, and that's where new technologies, like artificial intelligence can really play an, an outsized role. You know, helping with more than one language, helping with huge amounts of information. But we've had a scenario with, you know, hundreds of training manuals, right? Hundreds for, for somebody to be able to do their job. It it can take them over 10 years to become a master of this stuff. And it's all, it's changing too. It's not like it, it stays static and, and AI can ingest all that. It, it can, it can respond and it can respond accurately. And today without having to go through that ramp up, it doesn't get sick. It doesn't take vacations, you know, so there's, there's a lot of benefit there to having that kind of techno, that kind of solution for, for folks like yourself who are, who's moving states. You know, you, you also, when you bought your car, did, did it come with the, the registration as part of that process? Or did you have to go to the DMV and handle that?

Wade Erickson (11:09):

You know, I moved all my cars, so it was actually a bit more of a challenge because not only do you have to register it, they have different safety laws and different, you know, in, in California obviously the emissions is the big thing, but here it's the safety laws. And so you still have an inspection that's required and you know, and, and, and what's involved in that. And so it's a, it was a little bit, you know, different from state to state on what the car safety requirements and inspections are. And so you know, all of that stuff, you know, leads to a somewhat confusing process going from state to state, you know, and they can be very, very widely different, you know?

Lane Campbell (11:57):

And with the, when you bought it in California, do you remember, did, did they do the registration for you there or.

Wade Erickson (12:04):

Yeah, if I remember correctly, they took care of the plates. Yes, they did take care of the registration. And of course now that means that the car dealers have to have access to these systems to be able to create those. And, and I would imagine the workflow for that is a way different selling a car than signing up a car for license plates. So I could see where integrations of those systems into their purchasing process could be helpful.

Lane Campbell (12:36):

Well, what what's amazing is they may not have that integration. They may pay a person to take your paperwork and stand in line on your behalf. And get it done, and then bring it back with a stack of others and mail it out to you.

Wade Erickson (12:52):

And hopefully they got it all right, because you're just 150 or a 100 that they sold that week. Yeah, that's amazing.

Lane Campbell (12:58):

And, and being able to track, did they get it right? Because when you get the plate, were you happy? Did you get the plate? Was it tracked? Who was tracking it? Right? . So these are the types of solutions that we have out there for different types of commercial purposes. So allowing those types of commercial entities to better interface with the state and local government, especially around the DMV, provides a better satisfaction for their customer.

Wade Erickson (13:24):

Amazing. Yeah. Alright, well, I have a couple questions. If we could pivot to those a little bit more around your product development process and such. So, you know, how do you stay ahead? I mean, this is, obviously d and b's been around a long time. It's kind of like trying to improve the vacuum cleaner, you know, it's been around a long time. So, you know, tell me about some of the emergent trends and, you know, how you, you know, looked at your product to, you know, be competitive, especially for a government agency to be interested in picking up your product as a commercial company.

Lane Campbell (13:55):

Yeah. Well throughout, throughout my career, I, I've found that technology's really best when it can automate existing workflows and predictive technologies. Like we, we now lump together under ai, you know, AI technology, that, that really has a lot of benefits for automating a lot of more complex tasks with high levels of accuracy. So checking forms that people have to fill out, and seeing if there are errors or omissions in those forms. I know government processes where they will have, you know, to manually review all of those different types of forms. And, and now with AI and computer vision, you know, we, we can look at those forms and we can determine with high probability, if there's errors and omissions, we can put that in front of a person to make final determination. But we can accelerate the review process significantly. We can take hundreds of documents and, and sift through them in seconds versus, you know, having to go through piece by piece and piece. And so when we, we talk with these agencies and we try to figure out what kinds of problems we can solve and, and what types of modern technologies we bring, it, it really comes down primarily to, to trying to make the, the organizations more efficient in a secure manner. You know, we're dealing with, with very, very sensitive information. This is not the kind of process that you, you can just pass off to a ChatGPT. You can't just expect that your organization's going to be able to use something off shelf. So, so we're a little more bespoke. We're, we're focused on using the right solutions and we're focused on ensuring that the, the process is, is being automated in, in a thoughtful manner. This isn't something that typically you're going to find you, you can't go to OfficeMax and buy this on a shelf, you know.

Wade Erickson (15:38):

Yep. Yeah. So you know, obviously we talked about a lot about the user experience at the DMV and how you're focused on relieving some of those pain points as well as improving the, you know, security of it, which really protects the society with proper documentation review and looking for fraudulent stuff as well. So, you know, how do you balance that, you know, with new features to, you know, provide a user friendly interface as well as kind of streamlining and maintaining the, the progress of building the application. Because that's often a challenge is how much do you go outside of the customer and get their experiences versus build things in a silo of what you think it should be?

Lane Campbell (16:27):

Yeah, we we're, we're a big believer in collaborative co-creation processes. You know, we, we come at our product development approach in three phases. The first is a design phase. We don't write any code to make anything functional till we've worked with the stakeholders on the other end of the spectrum who are going to be using it and make sure that the, the product is designed around their flow. We work on full designs that contemplate various user stories, make sure we have that all mapped out. And then once we, we've gone through the design phase, you know, we, we get more technical, right? We go into the, the data modeling, the sequences of events. We, we make sure this is all mapped out, well documented before we, we go into sprints and we, we start to deliver. So, you know, that's how we really keep the stakeholders involved as the sprints move forward, we're having those product conversations, the designers are involved, and they're making sure that the new features are getting reflected in the designs that the stakeholders are requesting.

Wade Erickson (17:26):

So architecturally do you find that the, the SaaS and because I've worked with some government agencies and they really wanted for protection the solutions to be hosted in as a minimum private cloud environments. And if not, you know, you know, company hosted or, or at least agency hosted are finding that the cloud models that I think a lot of companies are seeing are, are a challenge in this space, particularly security and sensitivity to the data storage.

Lane Campbell (18:05):

You know, it really depends. In, in federal, you know, I think they're more open to some of these cloud solutions. A lot of state local governments are sort of having trouble with budget, unlike the federal, where, where maybe they have some more allocation for these types of programs. You know, if you're familiar with like FSMA compliance and, and FedRAMP, there isn't really that, that same level at the state. They're trying to do everything as secure as possible. And oftentimes if they had a, a facility or a colo that they put in 20, 30 years ago, there hasn't really been that regulatory ramp up that you would expect to, to kind of govern some of that. So we try to help them understand the benefits of, of the government cloud solutions that are out there and gravitate towards that. But we find that a lot of them have their own infrastructure. And if that's where they really want to be hosting, then that, that, you know, it's, it's really their, their environment and they've been using it for a long time and they understand it, and that that plays a role in their determination there and where, where they want this to live. But yes, we we're big proponents of the cloud. We, we think Microsoft deserves a fantastic platform. We've been fortunate enough to have, have some, some great resources from Microsoft throughout some, some of the work we've done. And we're a Microsoft partner and we, we continue to grow our, our offering within, within the Azure environment. That's it, you know, that we, we've gotten experience in, in different types of clouds from Google and Amazon as well. So it's, it's really not a a cloud specific issue. It, it really comes down to budget. And also, you know what, like I said, these, these agencies do suffer from an issue of attracting and retaining the types of talent you would expect that that would be necessary for some of these types of environments. So, you know, we try to be their, their partner in, in that mission and, and help them understand what offers are out there and, and how they, they can secure that maybe even what they're already running in, in a more modern way.

Wade Erickson (20:10):

Awesome. Awesome. So pivoting now towards kind of the some of the changes we've seen with remote working and, and teams that are in different regions. I'd imagine, you know, a lot of the stuff you work on does require US citizens and, and to be done on US Shore. You know, tell me a little bit about, you know, that product development and that process of cross, you know, functional teams, whether it be the product designers, the engineers, we talked a little bit about getting involved with stakeholders and that that's obviously your, your, your product owners and, you know, business analysts and UX UI designers and such. And then of course, you know, moving into testing I would imagine that release process especially for the stuff that's hosted in their environments, pushing new builds into their on-prem or, you know, closed environment can be a bit of a challenge. So can you talk a little bit about how you're managing teams and productivity and, and efficiencies across the, the multiple areas that maybe are new for some companies?

Lane Campbell (21:22):

Sure. Yeah. Our team is, is pretty accomplished. We've had folks that have built software for in use for by, by DOD, CIA, NSA, FBI every branch of the military. So, so we have a, a lot of experience folks who hold different types of clearance. That said, you know, it really does come down to the requirements of the agency we're working with. We are not currently focused on any federal level work. So this is a, a little different than maybe organizations that have some of these types of qualifications. We focus on state and local government because we see that there is a lot of opportunity to improve efficiency. And like I said, that some of their hosting may, may have been this way for, for decades now, and we're really not trying to come in and, and change everything on them, but we are trying to make them aware of, of new ways of doing things and new ways that we can help. So we've done everything from try, try to help with completely, you know, greenfield project type deals to help consult on existing. I've been an expert on different technologies for state and local government on everything from like drone regulations to types of blockchain and, you know, what helping them understand some of these things. So it really just goes back to we're not, we're not really trying to come in and do anything. So to help educate and be, be a good partner and, and see if there's opportunities where we can provide them with a better understanding of what these technologies mean for them and their constituents, and how, how that really plays a role back into how that, that local leadership, that local political leadership is perceived by the people that are, are working there. It, when we, when we get involved with one of these projects, we want to be able to give that local political leadership something that they can show to their constituents that that has been achieved, something that they can show results and they, and they can really bring to the campaign trail. And from the, the local agency's perspective, you know, we're not trying to put any burden on their limited resources. We're trying to find a way to bring this type of technology to them in a, in a be bespoke, secure manner that allows optionality when dealing with, with your local agency.

Wade Erickson (23:36):

Great. Great. So this is the time of the show. I'd like to pivot to you a little bit personally, I looked into your background and you are involved with quite a few organizations. You talked about the FBI, working with them on that FBI private company group, and quite a few other mentorships, board me kind of members of different support boards and stuff, you know, and that's a thing for a lot of technical folks. You know, I think balancing work and life, you know, personal life and then networking and working with outside agencies in a voluntary manner. Can you talk a little bit about how you've how that's helped your career and connectedness with your career to actually spend time in a voluntary way with organizations that need your expertise?

Lane Campbell (24:31):

Sure. Well, I I got started in my career in infrastructure and interconnected networks and, and new types of emerging tech. I was drawn to innovation always wanted to be surrounded by other innovative people. And, and a lot of the time you find that in the startup community. So getting involved in your local startup community or an online startup community, you know, you go into that. I think, I think you, you should go in with, with the expectation that you're going to grow and you're going to learn and you're going to meet people. Very rarely do, do these communities, produce successful businesses, but they, they do allow you to network real well, and they do allow you to gain a lot of insights. I, I'd like to say I've had sort of the world's best MBA I've helped over 2,500 companies leadership teams. I've been exposed to different business models, beyond what most people would ever imagine. And, and, you know, I I, I walked into a, a laundromat as part of helping quilts for Kids Charity, where we were, we were washing quilts and the, the laundromat was fortunate enough to, or we were fortunate enough that they donated some washing machine time to the charity. So I walk in, I start off chatting up the owner, and he's, you know, he, he catches on that I know a few things about different types of business models. And he goes what do you think I do in revenue? I tell him, and he is like, you're within $5,000 of it. And I'd never met him before. I'd never been to that, that region before. But just having had that exposure and everything, I, I think it's real valuable for folks to, to find that kind of community. It could be online, it could be in person really getting, getting in there though, your expectation, if you become an advisor or a board member, you're going to get involved in startup companies. Just, just be aware. It's, it's very unlikely. You know, it's, it's like a lottery ticket. You're going to spend $3 on one and great if it works out when you get involved in startup companies, you know, you got to go in with the expectation that this is just a way for you to grow personally and professionally.

Wade Erickson (26:26):

Great, great advice. I agree wholeheartedly that the, the way you learn is to put yourself out there and put yourself in unknown areas. And these startups will constantly throw you in different directions, whether it's the technology or the, like you said, the business model going between franchises, nonprofits, you know VC-backed, bootstrapped, all of those have different challenges and to experience those is way, way bigger than, and better than reading it in a book. So, while we're kind of approaching the end of our time before we part and say thank you, I'd like to introduce next week's show, if that's okay. Next week we have Dan Acosta, CEO of Grid. It's a supply chain and logistics software company, and it'll be on March 13th at 9:30. So look to that. It's again, live just like this show. And yeah, let us know what you think and join us for the show next week on the 13th with Dan. So back to you Lane. I really appreciate your time and your expertise. Fantastic. You know, government insight, we really don't get a lot of that on our show. And it, it is very different. You know, working 13 to 15 years as a civilian in the Navy, I saw a very, very different you know, process of, of, of dealing with budgets. And we talked a lot about the constraints of taxpayer money. And it is a very different challenge, I think with building tech and the impacts can be massive. And the financial challenges can be a challenge, challenge as well, because you're dealing with budgets that are, are very tight in today's you know, demanding state and local governments. So again, thank you so much. Is there anything you'd like to share before we say goodbye.

Lane Campbell (28:23):

Well, if anyone listening has any thoughts, questions, comments or wants, wants to understand a little better feel free to reach out with hello@govsoft.us. That's spelled G-O-V-S-O-F-T dot U-S.

Wade Erickson (28:40):

Alright. Thanks again for sharing your time with us and to the listeners, I appreciate you for attending this and another show of Tech Leaders Unplugged.

Lane Campbell (28:51):

Thank you for having me, Wade. I appreciate your time.