The Post-Covid Tech World

Tullio Siragusa (00:12):

And we're live. Good morning or good afternoon, wherever you're tuning in today. This is Tech Leaders Unplugged. I am Tulio Siragusa, and today I am speaking with Brenda Armstrong. We're talking about a very important talk topic. The post-Covid tech world specifically is prioritizing mental health, the key to thriving. That's the question we're going to look to answer today. So if you have questions or comments, please just post them. Wherever you're watching, we will see them and we'll do our best to accommodate them. But before we get started, welcome again, Brenda. I'm looking forward to having this chat with you.

Brenda Armstrong (00:52):

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Tulio. I'm excited.

Tullio Siragusa (00:55):

Absolute pleasure. Before we get started, I want to just kind of go over a few stats that I pulled up related to mental health. It seems to be something that if there isn't awareness around it, there should be. So let's just talk about a few of these stats and then maybe we can discuss how we can improve things. So here's one. According to the World Health Organization, one in four people globally will be affected by mental health or neurological disorders at some point in their lives. That means that a quarter of the population at some point, will have something that they're struggling with related to mental health. Yeah. But here's another stat. Mental health disorders account for 30% of the non-fatal disease burden worldwide, and 10% of the overall disease burden, including death and disability. Pretty interesting. The staggering stat makes sense. Here's another one.

Tullio Siragusa (01:55):

The who reports that depression is the leading cause of disability worldwide affecting 264 million people. And that anxiety disorder affects 284 million people worldwide, making it the most common mental health disorder anxiety. So if you're watching this and you feel a sense of anxiety from time to time it's pretty common. Yeah. And then here's another one. The United States in the U.S., the National Institute of Mental Health estimates that one in five adults will experience mental illness in a given year. So it's not even some things where it's long term, some of 'em just happen like within the year. Yeah. Triggers can happen. And then finally, the American Psychological Association reports that workplace stress costs employers an estimated 300 billion annually in absenteeism, reduced productivity, and healthcare costs. It's pretty clear from these stats we've got a problem. Yes. <laugh>, what are your thoughts, Brenda?

Brenda Armstrong (03:03):

Man my thoughts, you know, honestly, in a post covid world, right? Cause that's what this is. I definitely think that's what this stems from. And I don't think it's so much of a problem, right? There are two sides to every coin. As I think it is a really great time to find solutions to a problem. That's, we, that's been overlooked for so long. I don't think, you know, mental health issues are any new thing at all, by any means, <laugh>. But I definitely think, you know, during covid it forced, it forced everyone to sit still and address what, sit down and look around and be like, okay, do I really enjoy this? Do I want to go back to work? Why, why do I do what I do? They had to be with their family and like, I know had to be kind of sounds like forceful. But, you know, deep down, we all want to be with our families. But it forced them, okay, now you're with your family, you have no other choice. See who they are. See who you are. Find all that out. And I think a lot of stuff came up in everyone. And now it's like post covid. Okay. We're trying to pretend to go back to how things were, and I don't think we can just go back to how things were.

Tullio Siragusa (04:13):

Well, you bring up an interesting point. I mean generally, there are triggers that would cause someone to either have depression or some mental health challenges or anxiety. Sometimes it's tied to some traumas, right? Maybe early childhood traumas or even adult traumas. These traumas, if not checked or dealt with, can, can cause all kinds of problems. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So let's just say it, you know, we've all globally experienced a major trauma in the past three years. Absolutely. whether we want to admit it or not, it has been traumatic, right? Yeah. When this whole thing started, people were losing family members without the ability to say goodbye. We saw the numbers at the hospitals, that was traumatic. Okay. Significantly traumatic, while at the same time still trying to take care of your family work, and deal with all the stress of being locked down and all that came with them, right? Yeah. Fast forward three years later, everybody's relieved that we're coming out of it, but the trauma happened.

Brenda Armstrong (05:20):

Absolutely.

Tullio Siragusa (05:21):

And so there are people who feel overwhelmed, stressed, disengaged, and don't understand why that's the case. It's like, I'm a perfectly healthy person. What's the problem? Well, we just went through a major trauma <laugh> Yeah. As a global society.

Brenda Armstrong (05:36):

Everyone at the same time,

Tullio Siragusa (05:38):

<Laugh> at the same time. So it's no longer one of those things that, like, it's an isolated instance where you

Brenda Armstrong (05:44):

Can´t ignore

Tullio Siragusa (05:44):

It and how to, you can't ignore it. You know? We've both faced it. And so here are some tips that, that, I read that I think are really good worth for us to talk about. Like, how can we prioritize mental health in the workplace? And one of the things that I found was, you know, to promote mental health awareness, because everything starts with awareness, right? Absolutely. You're not aware of the problem. You can't deal with the problem. You know, and one of the tips was to create a culture of openness. Yeah. And understanding about mental health by providing resources and training sessions for employees and managers, right? If someone is sick or is getting an operation, it's clear, it's a physical thing, but I think there's a bit of a stigma or even a bias around mental health that needs to be removed. What do you think, just based on this tip, what do you think?

Brenda Armstrong (06:33):

Oh my goodness. I, I absolutely believe that the stigma, right? And it's crazy because I feel like everyone, at some point or another, we've all gone through trauma. Especially going back to, we all went through this trauma with covid altogether. So it's like, why is there a stigma and why is there a stigma when you went through it, I went through it, we all went through it, let's look around and say, Hey, acknowledge it. So that's awareness, right? But I think the first step to awareness, you know, awareness can happen inside, but being able to say it out loud is creating a safe space for people to be able to say it out loud. So I think the first step, you know, in the solution is really helping our, our leaders, and as you said, managers, employees as well. But to be able to equip them to learn how to create a safe space for people to be open about, you know, okay, we all went through this. And I think Liz, how you, how you portrayed it as in we all went through it together is a really good baseline to start with instead of trying to dig into everyone's individual stories. Cuz I know a lot of us, you know, had traumatic experiences before covid, but Covid is the one baseline that we can all relate to and we can all openly be honest and be vulnerable at the same time. But I think the first step is creating, being able to create safe spaces to do that.

Tullio Siragusa (07:52):

Yeah. I mean, I hate to say it, but in some ways you know, COVID acted as an equalizer around this. You know, it's certainly not the kind of thing you want to be equalized around, but it happens, unfortunately, and no one was immune to it, and everybody suffered one way or the other. So here's another tip that I read in terms of how companies can prioritize mental health mm-hmm. <Affirmative> it by providing mental health support offering access to mental health professionals, employee assistance programs, and stress reduction programs such as mindfulness or meditation workshops. Now, I know some companies, especially in tech, tech is very famous for having offered some of these things that are considered perks back in the day. But really today it's almost like a necessity. It's not even a perk. Yeah. Now, where they've had mindfulness training or, or meditational workshop or just like, I remember some companies have had rooms where you can just take a five-minute nap. Right. Just to kind of re-level yourself.

Brenda Armstrong (08:49):

Yeah. That's necessary.

Tullio Siragusa (08:50):

Now, these were perks from the companies, but I think what I'm reading is they're kind of more like a benefit now or, or a necessity.

Brenda Armstrong (09:00):

A necessity. Talk about that. I, man, I think the baseline is we're all human and I don't think it should be a, perk or like an extra thing. Oh, some people need this. No, we all need, we all need this. And like, is it back to being a safe space for everyone to admit we all need it, especially people in leadership because, you know, you have not only your own personal things that you have to deal with but combining it, as you said, covid also mixed our worlds, our personal world, and our professional world. So, and when you're in a position of leadership, you're not just, you know you're not just responsible for your own personal world anymore. You're responsible for everyone else's professional world and outcome and all that kind of stuff. So they, leaders have a really, really, you know, I think a really, really big part in this. And I think that everyone, obviously everyone should have access to the necessities of a safe space to be human and heal and address our trauma. But I think it all, it rises in falls with leadership.

Tullio Siragusa (10:05):

Exactly. I think our producer is trying to trigger some mental health challenges by <laugh> forth with the camera <laugh>.

Tullio Siragusa (10:13):

Anyway, here's another tip that I read about. Let's talk about this one. Okay. Encourage work-life balance. It says to implement policies that support a healthy work-life balance, including flexible work schedules, remote work options, and pay time off for mental health days. That last one's pretty interesting because I, I've actually done that like in the past where you're not sick, but you are so sort of tapped out and you're like, I just need a mental health day today. Yeah. And you start it off and like, don't think about anything if you can do that. So what do you think about that, you know, encouraging that work-life balance? Again, a lot of tech companies, especially bigger tech companies, have always had these sorts of perks. But we're talking today about like what is needed to address those, those stats we just mentioned earlier. What are your thoughts on the, you know, remote work option, flexible work schedules, and even paid time off for mental health days?

Brenda Armstrong (11:10):

Yeah. honestly, I believe that it's a two-sided coin. There's the individuals in the, the work-life balance, and then there's like the company side on providing that, you know, he helps provide the resources for a worth work-life balance. And I think that on an individual basis is definitely more about work-life harmony than it is balanced. Making sure that you know what you're doing is aligned with, you know, what actually serves you, what you actually, what actually excites you and you know what I mean? Like, what is your purpose? And if you're doing that, if you're in that, then the other side of the coin is, okay, how's the company facilitating that? And I think if both sides are aware of like the personal side, okay, is this in harmony with where my life is going, where I want my life to go? And then the other side, the business is aware of, okay, is my structure, does my structure allow a safe space for them to be what's the word? High functioning, all of that. And then also on the other side, not just results orientated, but like you said, those breaks and serving their human needs. So I think that's, it's definitely a two-sided thing

Tullio Siragusa (12:20):

To it. You said something so powerful. I mean, it, it needs to be captured into like a quote achieving work life harmony. Yes. I, I think that is so key because this idea of work-life balance is, is a farce. It's a hoax, <laugh> <laugh>. Everybody talks about it. It's a hoax. It's not, it's,

Brenda Armstrong (12:40):

It's not

Tullio Siragusa (12:41):

<Laugh>, it's not, there's no such thing. But work-life harmony, that's absolutely achievable. Because if you're focusing on the things that harmonize with who you are and where your purpose and your interests are mm-hmm. <Affirmative> and everything you do, it's not, it's not work or anything else, it's just who you are.

Brenda Armstrong (12:58):

Yeah.

Tullio Siragusa (12:58):

I think that is so spot on. I think we need to stop using work-life balance. It's

Brenda Armstrong (13:03):

Harmony and

Tullio Siragusa (13:04):

Adopt work life harmony. <Laugh>. I seriously believe in that. Hundred percent. Yeah. If we had to encapsulate this whole, this whole episode, it's gotta be how to achieve work life harmony. There we go. <Laugh>. Alright, let's continue on. Here's another tip that, that I found. Foster a supportive work environment. You know, encourage open communication, peer support, and team-building activities to create a positive and inclusive atmosphere. Now this is a challenge with a lot of remote work. So, you know, there's a lot of people pushing for me to come back to the office, there is one value of doing that, which is the ability to do some of these team-building activities and create a, a more inclusive atmosphere where everybody's sort of participating and working together. But it's not the only way to accomplish this one. You know, getting that, that, that work lot, I'm sorry, the team building activities and, and creating an open communication model. What do you think, you know, in the work in a, in a remote work environment, which we're still predominantly in, at least for knowledge workers what do you think of this particular tip?

Brenda Armstrong (14:14):

Man, I, I honestly think it still aligns with the harmony aspect of it. I think it's definitely necessary to have those, those perks, right? To have those extra things. But I'm a, I'm a big believer cuz I'm not just all sunshine and rainbows. I understand it. You, you know, if we have deadlines, we have to get results. There's some work, you know, there, you can't avoid that there, there has to be some absolute work into whatever it is that we do. I think a really, a cool solution that I think that companies could start to look into is, you know, retreats centered around like, okay, just, what's the word? To restore, you know what I mean? To restore, rejuvenate, let's reboot ourselves and then get back to work. So when we come back from this retreat, maybe it's a weekend, maybe it's, I, I don't know.

Brenda Armstrong (15:03):

But when there's a safe space for people to heal and to reboot, and then also on the other side of that, not the other side, just in tandem, it's a team thing. You know, the people that you're working with and you show up with them every day, whether it's virtually or in the office. But, you know, post covid most, more than likely, virtually, when you have the chance to be in in person with the people that you see virtually all the time. I think that can be kind of the gas to our car. We just have those retreats, refuel, refresh, and then when we come back, it's, I think it boosts everything. Everyone individually is boosted. And then when they have that experience together, they come back to the work part of their life and it just enhances everything. Everyone's ready to go, refueled, and ready to go. And I think there'll be a lot less burnout individually.

Tullio Siragusa (15:56):

I think you just defined possibly what a tech companies could build as a product offering. You know, this show is about tech leaders unplugged, and while we're having some internal chats run out to launch it, we will very quickly have CEOs and CXOs of technology companies, if you are a technology company that's building solutions that are not individually oriented, that are team oriented mm-hmm. <Affirmative> that deal with enhancing mental health mm-hmm. <Affirmative> for an organization, creating models where organization can help their employees thrive. We'd love to have you guests as a guest on this show. We'd love to talk to you. We'd like to hear what you're doing because it sounds as though that's a need. You know, we, we build solutions for managing payroll, for managing hr, for managing accounts receivable, for managing resources. Yeah. Supply chain. We have all these technologies in place, but when it comes to mental health, it's usually a B2C model, right.

Tullio Siragusa (16:56):

That's out there. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So maybe there's a time for com technology companies to begin to enhance their HR offering by including some of these capabilities, you know, that facilitate team building and team communication and their, say, work life harmony for all employees. <Laugh>. All right. Let's continue with one more tip that I read about, which is to train managers and supervisors, you know, provide mental health training to managers and supervisors to help them recognize the signs of mental health issues and support employees who may be struggling. You know, this is kind of a little bit of a dangerous territory cuz we don't wanna turn into therapists. That's not our job. We're not trained to do that. But what are your thoughts about bringing, again, awareness to leaders on what to look for? You know, maybe there's certain patterns and certain behaviors that instead of looking at what a terrible employee, maybe it's triggering what's going on with this person and empathetically say, how can we help them? What do you think about that in terms of training leaders to become more aware of identifying where someone might be having a mental health challenge?

Brenda Armstrong (18:04):

Yeah. you know, I think that our, and this is without me being a therapist or anything like that, I think our ability and capabilities, our bandwidth, if you could say to help others, is directly correlated to our capabilities with ourselves. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So I think equipping our leaders to be able to recognize those signs is definitely needed. But I think it, the idea around it could be expanded beyond just spreadsheets and trainings in front of a computer and here's some information, but more so let's prioritize the leaders feeling it for themselves first. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And then it's so much easier to identify it and relate and show compassion and patience when you're working with someone else without even being a therapist because you've done the inner work yourself. So I feel like if leaders were more personally developed on the emotional side of things, emotional intelligence and personal development, when it comes to the soft skills it's gonna, you don't have to be a therapist. You can be so much easier to take those trainings. And here here's a list of things to the spot and here's a list of things to look out for in your team when both sides are addressed, the soft skills and the hard skills.

Tullio Siragusa (19:14):

Yeah. I mean, and, and I think it comes down to being able to identify the, the, the, the sources of the stress, right? You know, you don't have to be a therapist to figure out if, if people are undergoing excessive workload or, or they, oh, they have a lack of control of their own domain or, or there's poor communication in place so that causes stress. People don't understand what they need to do, or even unrealistic expectation. I think these are some key things that leaders can adapt and just being aware of them as we come to an end. You know one of the things that, that I really liked as one of the tips that I found here is to encourage self-care. You know, promoting self-care practices amongst employees, including exercise, healthy eating and sufficiency. I think that is often overlooked.

Tullio Siragusa (20:05):

And sometimes in the past we might have thought, well, we're overstepping our bound if we're talking to people about their personal choices. But to encourage healthy lifestyle is a way to also encourage that that harmony we discussed. So I really appreciate this tip about encouraging healthy eating healthy exercise. And that can be done in a number of ways. I've seen organization create incentives for people to either lose weight or to, to quit smoking, for example. And and things of that sort that there are stress causers for sure. And then finally what do you think about this one, the regularly monitor i wellbeing, you know, they, they're doing surveys and, and trying to get the sense of satisfaction or improvement to the work environment. What do you think of that that option as a way to raise awareness around mental health?

Brenda Armstrong (20:56):

Oh, absolutely. I think that's, you know, what, what's the word? What's the phrase? It's what gets measured gets achieved. <Laugh>, I've, I've only, I'm might have butchered that, but basically paying attention to the numbers and the stats and the data, that's also very important. So if you can get tangible results in front of you and say, okay, this is what's going on, then we know exactly what to address. So I think that's, that's vital, you know, in, in learning what the problem is, where the problem is, and being able to create solutions for that.

Tullio Siragusa (21:27):

Well, it's been a good conversation. We're up on time. You know, we're often talking to people that are solving business problems with technology, and in many cases those technology also improving people's lives. And that's, that's wonderful, but with, let's not forget that there are people involved with everything that we do, right? We are, in essence, every single one of us in the peoples of people business. And people are not like widgets. You know, they have feelings and, and emotions and traumas. And we've all experienced this massive trauma globally in the past three years. So raising awareness around mental health is key. You know, it's one of the ways that by prioritizing mental health and implementing supportive policies companies can create a healthier and more productive work employ environment, which also also leads to reduced turnover and lower healthcare costs, and inclu increased employee satisfaction. There's a, so there's a direct ROI component to this as well. It's not just valuable for the people, it's also value for the business. So when those two things come together, it's a kind of a no-brainer. So we encourage you to review this and the key thing we've learned today is work life harmony. <Laugh>,

Tullio Siragusa (22:44):

Thanks for being with me, Brenda. So let's talk about, we got another show coming up tomorrow and let's post that up. We got coming up tomorrow, I'm talking with Adam Wendell and we're talking about the digital transformation journey navigating on chartered territories. This is gonna be an interesting conversation as we discuss what that looks like today. You know, most enterprises are on a digital transformation journey, and there's a lot of untreaded territory, you know, robotics, ai, ar augmented reality. All these things are very new and emerging. What, what opportunities arise for companies doing that digital transformation. So come and check out the show tomorrow as we deep dive into that topic and see what we uncover. And thanks for joining us this morning this afternoon, wherever you're watching us, and see you again tomorrow. Take care.